BY: Jolie Fatale
So one of my friends a talented,beautiful, educated, twenty something recently dated her first white guy. I’ll just say that this whole “white guy” “black woman” has been a consistent topic in many of my social circles for the past year and I’ve heard many opinions and view on the topic… and here’s some info:
For every 1 college-educated, $50k/yr black male, there are 3 college-educated, $50k/yr black females (or something like that). Not a good look right? Then you add the fact that a good percent of those black men won’t even be with black women… I mean no matter what anyone says, numbers don’t lie (usually) and the picking are slim. Black women over all other races seem to be the most loyal - meaning they usually only date black men… every other race/sex seems to be more open. And obviously this in-part has to do with slavery (I won’t expound).
I’m saying all this to say that black women, after years of being loyal to less educated lesser paid men, finally realize that they need someone who is more equal to them. And there is nothing wrong with that, b/c you’re gonna have more in common with someone who thinks more like you then someone who doesn’t.
What happened was that black women would end up with guys who they financially, economically, and socially differ from… It’ll be a Stanford Educated black woman dating a community-college drop-out, who works-odd jobs and talks about making it, but he doesn’t want to grow up, still hangs with his bullsh*t homies, still deals weed here and there, etc. That added on to the fact that, lets be real about- alot of black men do have passive-aggressive anger issues and because they grew up fatherless they don’t know how to love. They don’t fully know how to be the man in a relationship- they have a false sense of what love is… and more often than not black women stick by their sides and take their bullsh*t (even though its not deserved)… that too dates back to slavery (angry black men), but I won’t expound…
Almost 50% of black women over 35 or 40 have never been married… thats an issue… its b/c black women have been too loyal and have sacrificed their happiness to wait for the black man… but finally, after all these years black women are realizing that they have to break the stereotypes in their minds and date with their hearts and do what’s best for them - that may include dating white men. I’m so happy that many women are realizing this.
Now of course black men want to say “Black women some golddiggers” And that’s why they date white women, but that’s the biggest load of bullsh*t ever. I have many friends from different ethnicities and backgrounds, and most of my white and mixed female friends have one major thing in common: There mom’s always tells them to make sure they have a man that can take care of them, my white’s friends moms have been putting that in their heads since we were little. That’s why white women don’t care what you look like- if you can take care of her then she’ll be with you… she doesn’t even have to love you that much- I’ve seen this so many times. They won’t say this aloud, but my white homegirls date according to financial stability first - that’s why they end up with all those pro black athletes and stuff. And they work hard to keep it… and they sacrifice alot to keep it too, they let their men cheat and they stay through all the bullshit b/c they keep their “eye on the prize”… and if they get a divorce it’s whatever b/c she’s getting half anyway (that happens ALL the time) its quite interesting when you see this in real life… black women on the other hand have mom’s that tell them” be with someone who loves you and you take care of yourself”-see? its a completely different mindset. So black women are LAST on the golddigger dating for money scale , those white and now asian chicks will date whoever (black, white, indian, asian, spanish)- as long as he has the money. And let’s be honest- thats kinda smart… And to be honest I feel like many white, spanish, and asian women play into the whole “black men want light colored, long haired women”- i’ve seen it…
nevertheless, it’s a great thing that black women are dating white man… and the white man/black woman couples I’ve seen seem to be so happy- the men really do love them for THEM and that allows the black woman to love herself more and therefore be happier… sometimes black men seem so unloving when it comes to a brown black woman.. they prefer she not “go natural”, they prefer she grow her hair out, alot of black guys only “do light-skin, redbones”… so it creates a void and fortunately some white men really do love black women and they are on the same page financially, economically, and socially… so it’s a perfect fit.
I would say more, but this is really getting to long, lol….
My preference is a MAN that is willing to commit to an exclusive relationship. A MAN that knows the importance of courting a woman in today’s society. A MAN who knows what he wants, and is working on an action plan to bring it into fruition. . A MAN who is not afraid to take control and tell me like it is regardless. A man that understands that he has found a prize in ME, and ONLY HE can unwrap this gift.
Black women and Black men have lost the chivalry that is so much needed to attract a long lasting relationship. Courtship is NOT old fashion it is a necessity!!
Personally, I am too eager to please the black man. Therefore, I have to wait for that Black MAN to come along that IS AS WILLING and eager to please ME as I HIM.
Thank you Jolie for pointing this out. This really disproves the argument that a lot of black men have for dating white women and refusing to date black women.
My point, however, is that if you date outside your race, be comfortable with it. Men dating outside of their race always look like they got caught stealing something when they see a sista walking toward them and their date. thats some wack shit.
great post jolie!
Comment by FeFe Fatale — August 5, 2008 @ 8:00 am
You girls ROCK….I had to skim this. But at lunch time Im gonna really get into it.
Comment by thecomebackgirl — August 5, 2008 @ 8:47 am
I can’t give a complete “Amen” for this one. While I find your gold digger section truthful, none of it is particularly ground-breaking. We all know black women have it bad when it comes to finding “the one.” However, in your attempt to scold black men for their preference to date white women, you seemingly reaffirm some of the angry black woman stereotypes that many black men use as reasoning for their dating preference.
Using terms like “community college drop out” and “passive aggressive anger issues” makes it sound like you know the ending before you’ve read the book. So why do you bother? FYI Less “educated” doesn’t mean less smart. Some of the smartest men I know didn’t go to college and make more then some of my male friends who did. And no, they’re not “dealing weed here and there.”
Kudos to your continued dedication to finding the strong black man who plays the ying to your yang. But I would urge you to remember that while the plight of the black man has had a considerable effect on the plight of the black woman, we ALL have issues. And no relationship will be successful without a willingness to face them head on and realize that we may have to face some of our own issues in the process…
Just my two cents…
Comment by Esh — August 5, 2008 @ 10:41 am
Ho hum…ho hum…doot te doo…doot te doo…where to begin…where to begin…
I’ve dated a white guy. And I don’t think it’s as complicated as this alls seems. But I think that’s because in general, I always look at the person and not their occupation or how much they make or what they drive, etc. I look for a certain connection. And that’s also why I always remain friends with my exes.
I think in general, the issue that black women need to consider is this: Is my must-have list too long?
It’s an issue that goes far beyond dating a man of a different race. it’s completely fine to have preferences (or whatever else you have for that matter)
However, it usually starts with, he has to be black..then we go to: he has to be great in bed, he has to make x amount, he has to drive this or better, he has to be in excellent shape, he has to have a college degree, he has to have all his teeth, he has to be tall, he has to be funny, he has to do jumping jacks with one hand tied behind his back, he has to like the color green, he has to have exactly 5 friends, he has to have a dog, he has to…
Comment by V. Clev — August 5, 2008 @ 11:26 am
V. CLEV
i am working on a blog about that now. i think that laundry lists of requirements are just defense mechanisms used to not allow someone to get close to you.
Comment by FeFe Fatale — August 5, 2008 @ 1:51 pm
Please preach the sermon Jolie… my mother had a cousin back in the day that played for the 49ers. This was in the late 70s-he would always get tickets for the family and they would see most of his home and away games.
My mother and my aunts ALWAYS told me…that white women had the golddigging thing ON LOCK (my words) After their games it would be the white women (not the black ones) that would be hanging near the exit of where their buses were. Alot of these women’s white mama’s told them to “get you a professional sports player”…him being black negated the fact that the sports player was rich.
Its not digging for gold when you want to know that the man has the life skills to make a comfortable home for you and your family. Secondly, I’m looking to make ALOT of money as a family. And I need to know his mindset about personal wealth.
If he’s thinking like a new born slave….then its a no go. Call it what you want. Money matters and people thinking differently about wealth creation is why many marriages fail.
Comment by thecomebackgirl — August 5, 2008 @ 2:29 pm
meant “him being rich negated the fact that he was black”
Comment by thecomebackgirl — August 5, 2008 @ 2:31 pm
Again no one wants to talk about the black man’s anger. His passive aggresive behavior, lack of accountability in and outside of relationships. His own self-esteem…there are MANY self hating black men, there’s one I encounter on a particular blog EVERY DAY.
His behavior largely goes unchecked. But he’s real quick to point at why he’s a failure because of the “angry black woman”.
Comment by thecomebackgirl — August 5, 2008 @ 2:34 pm
I agree with what Esh said. Please tell me where you’re getting
these numbers from. I understand that this is your blog site, and you
may not feel the need to cite sources, but if you are going to go hard like this please
give us a SOURCE to refer to.
Secondly, I disagree that all black men think that black women are
gold diggers. But, let’s be real, black men and women tend to continue the
stereotype about us when they are on national TV and feed into every
stereotype by acting an ass. I, myself, am guilty of such ignorance by
being on a dating show and feeding into how the media portrays black
men.
Just last week you and your co-author posted about how NEITHER of you pay for dinners our outings when you are with a person you are dating. If that is, in fact, true, it shows a lack of maturity. Why wouldn’t a man think you are a
golddigger if THAT is your personal philosophy? It does not help when you have black women on the TV regularly playing right into that golddigger stereotype.
It’s one thing to want to be respected like a queen (I THINK ALL BLACK
WOMEN SHOULD BE), but you are pushing it with this post.
Also, I know a lot of educated females who would never date a guy without a college education. I don’t care how good looking he is, they just won’t do it. So where are you getting the facts that women with a college degree would “date down” with a “community college dropout”? We can do a real survey if you like…
Lasty, there are not A LOT of black men who exclusively date white women. That “fact” is totally false. That numbers has actually decreased in recent years and its actually less than 2% of black men.
How about you write a blog commenting positively on black men? Maybe talk about how
great your father is or your grandfather’s good qualities. Instead of shooting black men down, why not build them up instead of laying out all their faults and encouraging black women to turn their backs on them?
:0
Comment by J.Gray — August 5, 2008 @ 3:24 pm
It seems to me that ALL anyone wants to discuss is the black man’s anger. For every passive aggressive black male, I’ll show you a black female who is completely absorbed in self-victimization. On a daily basis I deal first hand with “relationships” involving black men and women. Trust me when I tell you, the men ain’t the only ones lacking accountability!
I just hope that in addition to pointing out the systemic reasoning surrounding the many problems of the black male, you take a moment for self-reflection. I can’t stress enough: WE ALL HAVE ISSUES!
Comment by Esh — August 5, 2008 @ 3:24 pm
@J Gray: Last weeks post was all FeFe and as you can see from my comment on her post. I do pay for dates and I dont think a man should grow broke or pay for time.
in regards to my post.. I did shoot down the black man yes but there are a million posts about how ANGRY BLACK WOMEN are. when it came down to it in the end of my post I said personally I PREFER to date BLACK MEN. I do have the stats but why should i reference this isnt a term paper its a BLOG people. But if you want some information on what i wrote here ya go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j30aP2sg2ms
And I didnt encourage black women to turn their backs on black men ..i just said think outside the box .. black men arent the only option. look for someone to love you regardless of color. I also pointed out the simple fact that black men do it so why shouldnt we.
thats all!
Comment by Jolie Fatale — August 5, 2008 @ 3:31 pm
oh and did we mention ..that on this blog we contradict ourselves .. well DAILY… thats .life.. Life is a big contradiction. Everyone talks out there a*s about something and then does something totally different.
I’m just sayin!
Comment by Black Femmes Fatales — August 5, 2008 @ 3:33 pm
yeah its not world news tonight, we dont have to reveal our sources. lol. jk.
and also, i can write a positive piece on black men angie stone style. thats fine. i have had plenty of positive black men in my life. they have had a lot of influence on who i am today and why i choose not to accept bullshit from bullshittin negroes.
but then when i tell ya’ll how i wont accept the bs, then i’m called all types of things. i think yall commenters contradict daily as well. which is fine. it makes for interesting convo
Comment by FeFe Fatale — August 5, 2008 @ 3:41 pm
Esh I don’t think anyone said that we didn’t all have issues. Jolie underscored that Black women ALSO have OPTIONs. That’s an empowering proposition. Black women are EXTREMELY loyal to our men and sometimes at our detriment. And I think its OK, to open those options.
And true I think accountability goes full circle when Black women and men subject themselves to behavior they think they deserve. To Jolie’s point this post is about getting and expecting more. And for the Black woman to not need to feel like while she looks for her prince, she also has to save the black race.
Thats pretty tiring and self-sacraficing…and I –when it came for getting the love I deserve–did not sign up for that.
Now once I am I get the man of my dreams, then we can work on saving “US” but first I got to work on saving MYSELF….and to thine on self be true.
Comment by thecomebackgirl — August 5, 2008 @ 3:43 pm
Perhaps then, this should have been two different posts…Even before I knew black men had issues, I knew I had options. One’s decision to date another race shouldn’t be solely based on the fact that their “fed up” with their own. News flash: there are shiftless White/Latino/Asian men too. I think if your intent was to congratulate Black women for stepping outside the box, it could have been done without even mentioning black men at all; especially if you’re, as Fefe stated in her blog “dating with your heart” …and not out of spite.
Comment by Esh — August 5, 2008 @ 4:09 pm
“I think if your intent was to congratulate Black women for stepping outside the box, it could have been done without even mentioning black men at all; ”
Why??? I am a BLACK woman. These are BLACK women issues. This blog is by and about Black women. Get us together and we will always go back to our “challenges” with dating.
There are tons of men and several black male blogs where I can speak in glowing terms about them, but the not so glowing should be coddled??? They deserve kid gloves and baby talk “its OK ….YOU …yes y-o-u and slavery to contend with. You get a special pass, like the special bus…you get the special pass”
ummm no…and thank you.
Comment by thecomebackgirl — August 5, 2008 @ 4:56 pm
“its OK ….YOU …yes y-o-u had slavery to contend with”…that also should explain away both of our poor choices.
Comment by thecomebackgirl — August 5, 2008 @ 4:57 pm
hmm. I agree on a couple of things..
1. white women have the gold digger on lock
2. being rich/financially secure negates being black for white women.
3. if you’re taking care of them.. they are down for the cause.
Personally I don’t think that there are less qualified black men available to date black women. I was at the club over the weekend. I only saw brothas talking to sistas. There were very few brothas talking to the 10 white girls in a ‘let me holla at ya’ manner. I believe ya have to search a bit harder to find what ya looking for. Of all the black male friends I have… very few of them date white women. The majority date black women. But ultimately what ever get’s ya going is what I say. Don’t hate to get a date… appreciate your mate.
Comment by Eathan — August 6, 2008 @ 9:38 am
Jolie Fatale good post. We should all keep our options opened.
One thing I hate to hear is Black Men calling Black Women Angry. Well you would be angry too if the man you’re pouring your heart out to is trying to use and abuse you and no matter how many chances you give him, he screws it up by cheating, lying and not being “the man” in the relationship. In fact, I think I might write a blog post about it later.
Comment by shelia — August 6, 2008 @ 11:41 am
Ladies I just realized something….(in my eclipse daze)…you actually LINKED INTO SBM yesterday…and all blog apps show that inlink…but Id like to give people the benefit of the doubt …so I want to just believe that its a co inky dink.
Comment by thecomebackgirl — August 6, 2008 @ 12:17 pm
@comeback: we sure DID link into him yesterday. I’ve been shaking my head all morning but hey maybe it was a mistake? lol. I doubt it but oh well .. I’ll take it as a compliment.
Comment by Jolie Fatale — August 6, 2008 @ 12:22 pm
I’m not up on the blog lingo…What does linked in mean?
Comment by Esh — August 6, 2008 @ 12:32 pm
@ESH: It means that when you click on “black women some goldiggers” it links back to single black males blog on goldigggers. The point comeback was trying to make that I made on his site today is that his post for today which is “something new” is exactly like my post yesterday and that since he was linked in on the post he knew that. We arent saying he did it on purpose maybe it was a mistake. but he was definitely linked in!.
Comment by Jolie Fatale — August 6, 2008 @ 12:48 pm
@ Esh
All blog applications show when someone has linked to you. Meaning…Jolie linked to SBM’s post above yesterday on “Black Women Some Gold Diggers”. Unless he doesn’t check the application (I usually do everyday) it SHOWS clearly that someone has cited your work. It also shows on the actual post as a link—but that seems to be missing…
Anyway…again maybe it really was an oversight. One would have to be overseeing ALOT (the in link on your own blog app and on the post)…BUT I like the Femme’s blog and i ultimately think that its a form of flattery. Thats the upside.
Comment by thecomebackgirl — August 6, 2008 @ 12:50 pm
Sorry Jolie I was still writing …didnt see your reply to ESH.
Comment by thecomebackgirl — August 6, 2008 @ 12:52 pm
I see! LOL…Coincidence? I think not….
Comment by Esh — August 6, 2008 @ 12:52 pm
So what “linking” violation am I being accused of? I haven’t added u to the blogroll yet, but trust that it’s coming. I swear I can’t have a life anymore. If ur incoming link ain’t show up I’ll look into it.
First off, don’t take my post out of context. I didn’t call black women any bigger golddiggers than any other race. Any race of woman can be a golddigging bucket head.
One thing I notices here that I see way too much is these great demands of us black men, long lists of why we are all no good cheatin scumbags, and then some laundry list of what you want from us … but I never hear any indication about what your bringing to the table. I have no problem being everything you listed, but if ur incapable of reciprocating, you fall into the selfish and angry category.
You did here what comeback complains about on my site all the time. You belittled your own race in your pursuit of promoting interracial dating. I guess I’m destined to suck at life since I am a Black Man.
Last thing. A white man wanting a “sista” with natural hair and to be Afrocentric is the same as the might skinned loving brother. In both cases their striving to get that “novelty” and show self hating in both cases.
I’m done and love the blog though. Hit me up if there is some linking issue. And my bad for atealing the topic, it really was an accident
Comment by Single Black Male — August 6, 2008 @ 11:34 pm
I know this blog is to be taken light-hearted, but as a black man in America it is dissappointing to read post after post dimenishing the black man. I find it hard to believe that the only counterpart a Stanford educated black woman would be able to find is a community college dropout who sells weed! I maintain that a Stanford educated black woman is probably polar opposites from the kind of man you describe and by your own admission women would like to partner with a mental and educational equal.
I also find it hard to believe black women are not getting married because of their loyalty to the black man solely. Is it possible some black women just don’t want to marry?
Yes, its hard for black women. Date outside your race until you are blue in the face. However, don’t blame it on all the issues the black man has. You posted last week that he doesn’t have a chance with you because he doesn’t buy you expensive dinners. I’m just sayin don’t say there are no black men for you to date just because you find a flaw with every one you meet. No one is perfect.
Comment by M. Randy — August 7, 2008 @ 1:34 am
So as long as my post is I am guessing no one got to the bottom where i wrote:
See the thing is people.. right now most of you live up North …where there is flux of educated black men but see that isnt the case in the rest of the country.. the rest of the women outside of the DMV have a hard time finding an educated black man on their level.. its true ! OH and all my opinions (sprinkled with facts)..well are merely FACT.
You cant live in a couple cites or a couple states and think you can speak for the whole US. I have lived in over 10 states and have traveled and lived numerous places. What I speak is TRUTH.
Comment by Jolie Fatale — August 7, 2008 @ 5:32 am
SBM …what the hell are you talking about. And why are you making me come off my eclipse high…you know good an well what “linking violiation” you are guilty of.
Mainly the point is a) you HAD to have known when and how these ladies made this post that inspired the same name of your post THE VERY NEXT DAY because of the inlink on this post.
So where is the inlink here: http://www.singleblackmale.net/2008/07/07/golddigger-justification/. They linked to you…did you NOT see it the day they made it? Why is it missing on your site for goldigger justification???
Why not just say my bad, or also cite them as well in your post. Why do all this to attempt to save face.
B. if this was some grave mistake…you also did NOT see people clicking on this link to go to your site. There should have been quite a bit of traffic. That inspired a similiar post with the same name THE NEXT DAY. which you claimed you had no idea.
come on.
Comment by thecomebackgirl — August 7, 2008 @ 7:51 am
Hello there!
{waves}
I wrote a post three weeks ago, “Who Really Cares If Brothas Want White Women?” because I wanted to point out that black women have often placed their hopes for marriage on the NOTION that black men will choose them first!
This is SUCH a fantasy!
Black men do NOT belong to black women. They have never SAID that they do. They frreely date and marry women of other races. When a black man becomes financially and professionally successful THAT is when women of other races begin giving him the time of day… sistas will try and BUILD a life with a man who is struggling.
Why hate on the white girl who is a highschool drop out and a waitress who set her sights on a black athlete who had miilions? They aren’t trying to date a high school drop out. They are trying to marry into an ENTIRELY different socioeconomic level.
Do black women do this?
Not usually.
Black women have this “BO” mentality where they only want a black man….and guess what ladies… LESS THAN 2% of the nation’s population is black male and “marriageable” while black women are at least 9% of the national population.
it is mathematically impossible for all black women who desire marriage to have a black husband.
“Y’all betta recognize!”
Quickly.
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
Comment by BlackWomenBlowTheTrumpet.blogspot.com — August 7, 2008 @ 1:39 pm
i agree for the most part but its not an equal 2% ot 9% because you also have to discount the marriageable black women.
but i always say that I dont care about stats because i always plan to land on the good side of them. i will be marrying a black man. nuff said.
Comment by FeFe Fatale — August 7, 2008 @ 1:55 pm
@Comeback: Please … not today. My ulcer.
I honestly didn’t know about this post. You don’t have to believe me, but I don’t think I would be that dishonorable or disingenuous to steal someones topic the day after and not acknowledge them.
I work a stressful busy job. I get like a 100 comments a day. I get emails for every single one, so I don’t look at them. I go to my current post when I get time and catch up. I apologize that I didn’t see the inlink to a post I wrote months ago, but I didn’t. And I don’t appreciate you coming on here calling me a fucking liar about it.
To Jolie: I am truly and dearly sorry that I didn’t notice the inlink and posted a similar topic the next day. It was a pure coincidence. I will try and make amence by blogrolling you (which I’ll do in a few minutes) and then putting a link to your post in my rants tomorrow. I hope you really don’t think I would really do that to you and thanks for putting the link in the comments section. Honestly, if you can forgive me … we should work together. I think I’m in need of a new sister anyway.
Comment by Single Black Male — August 7, 2008 @ 6:43 pm
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Pingback by Single Black Male » Rantings of an SBM — August 8, 2008 @ 7:05 am
I think you first need to be distinct about what reason you choose to marry: love or money/comfort. If you choose to marry for love, shouldn’t the wait be worth it? I mean, As a black man who has dated outside of black women, I honestly feel no deeper connection than a black woman; I am dating, but, in the end I do see myself with a black woman.
Now, If you look to marry for money/comfort, then yes, I would say Black women need to change their approach and expand the boundaries. There is a miniscule amount of Black men who have amassed the type of wealth and education many Black women seek in comparison to other races.
I must offer a rebuttal to the notion that Black women are told, “find someone who loves you, and you take care of yourself”. This seems to have skipped the Southern states. I am originally from the South, and most Black women there seek a man to cater to them, take care of them,etc.; however, this is not reciprocated. In ‘the old days’ men took care of the finances and stability at the home because women would not work/pursue higher education, thus, her role was a homemaker. This was seen as a trade-off; now, the roles are ambiguous. Black women still want the ‘pampering’ associated with the old way of thinking, yet, they do not want to remain true to the role of these women. Many cannot cook, do not clean..perpetuating a false reality torn somewhere between ’sex and the city’ and ‘girlfriends’. Often times they seek courtship from a man, yet, they entertain several men (this is NOT a courship, some of you need to seriously ask your grandmothers what a courtship entails before you exclaim that as something you seek), they are very self absorbed, materialistic (who cares what I drive, the point is that I own it), etc. Women down south are taught to seek men who frankly, give more love than they need returned. This honestly, led to that ugly tradition of illegitimate children, extramarital dating, etc. There are good Black men out there, but most will not compromise for ‘almost’. Meaning, why would a Black man give up the 3 or 4 women in his dating circle, for someone who will not voluntarily cook? Why would a brother give up his dating rotation for a woman who is unsure about WHY she even wants to get married??
Comment by BlkBond — August 10, 2008 @ 7:20 pm
@blackbond
I think you are absolutely right. As a woman who is dual-degreed, a homeowner, who cooks for her man and cleans I think that the courting and the catering has gone out the window with the advent of women seeking higher education and climbing the corporate ladder. I think that some of those values should be brought back into the home so it makes us as black women more so of a viable asset to our men. Being that I am not originally from the North or the South I can not speak for those women. All I know is that any man I am with is treated like the King that he is and accordingly I would like to be treated like a queen.
thanks for your comment… very enlightened sir.
Comment by Jolie Fatale — August 10, 2008 @ 7:26 pm
Enjoyed the post….SPEAK!
Comment by crimsonpurl — August 15, 2008 @ 9:31 am
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